Curse

Rieselle · Sep 06, 2005, 12:28 PM // 12:28

When thinking of new classes....

Problem: The existing class combinations in GW cover almost all of your normal fantasy roles.

Problem: When they release the expansion with new classes, you'll probably have to make new characters if you want to use the new classes, unless you only take them as a secondary.

Problem: People keep asking for new classes that are "almost" like an existing class, but with certain key differences that make them thematically different but gameplay-similar.

Possible solution: Instead of adding classes one at a time, add a new set of specialisation classes based on existing ones. Examples at the bottom.

These classes share 1 or 2 attribute lines (plus skills) from their parent class, but have a different Primary Attribute, and different properties (such as armour AL, weapons, energy regen / energy pool, etc.) They have a couple of unique skill lines with their own skills.

For a PvP character, or a new character, it's just a new class that you can choose, just like any other.

For existing PVE characters, in the expansion you'll get quests that allow you to change your primary class to one of the related specialisation classes. Thus you'll be able to keep some of your skills, items, etc, whilst still getting to play the new classes.

Unresolved problem: Can we be both the parent class and the spec class? Eg, be a Warrior/Berserker ? We'd have the situation where we would have less attribute lines than someone else, because those classes share some. If that's ok, no probs. If that's not ok, then we might have to complicate it by preventing such combinations.

Edit: Oh my god, I never realised that Warriors and Ele's have more attributes than other classes! Some people can't count ^^; So problem solved :P

Anyway,
For example, let's say Warrior -> Berserker

********
Berserker:

A warrior that wears light armor, but has high health and 1 pip of natural health regen. Has 1 pip of energy regen and 10 max energy, but can gain adren at a higher rate due to Rage, the primary attribute.

Primary Att: Rage (lots of frenzy-type skills, affects adren gain rate, etc.)
Atts:
Axe Mastery (from warrior)
Hammer Mastery (from warrior)
Battle Cries (offensive-related shouts)
Battle Hymns (enchants? Frozen-soil effect? I dunno, just making it up on the fly...

********

Then we have Warrior -> Sword Saint (aka Samurai)

********
Sword Saint:

A warrior who uses a sword in an exquisite dance of defense and offense. Wears lighter armor (70AL?), but has 4 energy pips and 25 base energy.
Has no attributes related to shields or foci, so you'll have to rely on a secondary to use a left-hand item.

Primary Att: Duelist (improves attack speed, lots of Riposte-like counterattack skills, etc.)
Atts:
Sword Mastery (from warrior)
Blade Arts (spell-like attacks that require a sword. Ranged, aoe, pbaoe, etc.)
Inner focus (self-buffs, "next hit does 1.5x damage" type skills, etc.)
Soft Arts (evades, dodges, movement skills, speed skills)
********

Here's some example spec classes, just pulling them from my arse:

Warrior:
Sword Saint
Berserker
Knight (heavy armor, tactics)

Elem:
Summoner (Creates various elemental creatures, pet-attacks, related spells)
Spell Sword (Additional spells that work like Conjures, IW, etc. self-protection skills like Armor spells and wards.)
War Mage (Big fat AOE spells. The nuclear catapult of the fantasy world.)

Ranger:
Archer
Animal Trainer
Druid

etc....

Claymore · Sep 06, 2005, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Very intresting concept, very well though out as well, I'would be very intrested myself in this line of thinking. Just to be sure I understand what you are saying, instead of adopting a secondary class, you actually specialized in a sub class of your primary? Hmmm I keep wanting to find a reason to say no , but the more I think about it the more I like it! We can only hope I guess, Good Job!

Rayea · Sep 06, 2005, 07:24 PM // 19:24

so, like, your a warrior, and you take the berserker class as secondary, rather than an other main class?

kind of realy a warrior/warrior in a way? or a Pure Warrior, since the secondary class *specialist class* is another warrior based class?

hm...not bad, a bit like prestige classes in neverwinter, and a lot of folks loved them ^^ (cept the pureists, who hated everyting new added in class and level wise after the original lol)

so mesmer might have...
illusionist...(uses illusiary monsters to inflict ilusion damage, that the victim *thinks* is real and manifests health loss from)
Mentalist....(uses mind control skills like charm monster and mind blank style spells)
Mind Shaper...(uses psycology ans illusion skills to freak out and demoralise the enemy)

monk might have....
marital monk....wears light armour and can use swords efectively
healer....has more versitile monk heal skills, and the much needed Resurect NPC spell ^^
schollar...knows many things, and knowing this, can be more effective agains enemies by knowing thier weak points ect, and the maps and so forth.

best think to do, though, would make the primare class a pre-requisite..so you cant take Berserker unless your first class is warrior.
otherwise, it dosent make sence, and im sure, would be open to sevear abuse...compared to minor abuse ^^ like the rest hehe.

Rieselle · Sep 07, 2005, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Oh, I guess I didnt explain it very well. What I mean is, in the expansion, you can change your classes to a related spec class via a quest.

So, for instance:

My Warrior / Elem can turn into a Berserker/Elem. Or a Berserker / Spellsword.

In PvP the spec classes are just normal classes, you pick whatever you want.

The problem I was thinking of, was whether to allow Berserker / Warrior or Berserker / Knight as a valid class combination, as they have overlapping attribute lines. If the engine supports characters with different numbers of total attribute lines, then it would be ok. Otherwise not.

TSBasilisk · Sep 07, 2005, 02:15 AM // 02:15

Or rather than completely changing the class, add on a sub-class which offers a single new attribute line with related skills. When you become a member of that class, a new armor MIGHT be opened up. You start off with one sideline per class, and can choose the one related to your primary or secondary. Opening it would require a quest, of course.

Warrior Sub-class:
Berserker
At higher levels, you gain adrenaline faster and attack faster.
Armor: A mixing of Ascalon and Gladiator, looking to have been made from bear pelts; bear's head for helm, of course.

Elementalist Sub-class:
Alchemist
Allows you to produce potions which aid your party; takes time and materials and has temporary effect.
Armor: A full robe with leather gloves and boots and a mask for the face.

Mesmer Sub-class:
Drama
Allows you to take reduced damage from attacks and misdirect your enemies.
Armor: Another stylish outfit, with a mask similar to the classic dual mask symbol merged into one.

Necromancer Sub-class:
Summoner
Allows you to summon spirits who have various positive effects on pets and minions.
Armor: Robe inscribed with black flames.

Ranger Sub-class:
Herbalist
Allows you to offer some healing and curative skills to your team.
Armor: Similar to the second elementalist instructor in Post-Searing with the stalkers.

Monk Sub-class:
Arbiter
Gives a chance to reflect a portion of damage done to you back onto the attacker.
Armor: Similar to the judge.

Claymore · Sep 07, 2005, 12:41 PM // 12:41

Yes, TSBasilisk explain exactly what my take was on it, primarys classes stay as is, but like accession or infusion, near the latter half of the game quest to access the subclasses of the primary, ie. warrior/beserker, etc.

I think this is the line of thinking to go, not to completely change the primary classes altogether, but rather add secondary options that branch from the primary Class.

Rieselle · Sep 09, 2005, 09:08 AM // 09:08

So you guys are thinking of the "more power for my existing character" sorta thing. I'm not sure I agree. You're basically suggesting that, with a quest, all players branch into their subclass (why would you pass up an extra attribute? There's no tradeoff.)

My suggestion was to introduce NEW classes into the game, but, to provide some continuity for RP characters, we allow them to swap their primary class into a related specialisation class. (since we already allow changes of secondary class, they can change that to a specialisation class too). However, if they like their primary class, they can stick with their original class - the spec class isnt better, just different.

Brannor · Sep 09, 2005, 09:36 AM // 09:36

TBH, I love the idea!
This would add a lot to the single class chars and make them worth while.
Less variation, more output.
Though if it happens I would hope for more specializations, like Rayea said.

Spec skills could enhance the regular ones or create combos otherwise not available.
f.i. spalsh water on someone and shock them with lighting for extra damage

Rayea · Sep 09, 2005, 10:11 AM // 10:11

well, they say diversity breeds...something or other ^^

with specialists or prestige classes, there tends to be 3 camps.

1...'i hate it, i hate any class that isnt the original one, no new classes, hmph!
2....'i like new classes, they let me change stuff about, make new characters then go back to my faves.
3...'OMG! i LOVE!!! new classes....i spend hours reading up on them, working out how to use the new skills to best advantage.i spend hours charting which skills and upgrades to get at each level (when thats how the game works) so that i can be the Perfect Character at top level

heres hopeing the devs and the general publick are mostly 2 and 3

maybe if they add 2 specialist classes per Chapter, but have about 10 per class, that would certainly diversify

imagine, next chapter, going to ToA and listening to the shouts...

Pure Warrior LFG
Monk/Sage LFG smite and identify
Ranger/apothacary, brings poison and cure flasks

Mentalmdc · Sep 11, 2005, 12:03 AM // 00:03

pure genious

the origional idea btw not so much the developed one

Rieselle · Sep 14, 2005, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Thank you. I hope they do something along these lines in the expansion, rather than adding a new race with similar classes. Since the new races are probably going to be either Dwarves, Charr, or Mursaat. And THEY'RE ALL UGLY.

I'm still looking for a viable way to make a "Melee in normal clothes" sort of fighter. The armour-clad look doesnt appeal to me.